| View previous topic :: View next topic |
|
| Author |
Message |
|
Guest
|
 Posted: 05/11/05 |
 |
|
Every cause has an effect. Every choice has a consequence.
If the consequences that come your way are not what you desire, there is a reliable way to change them. Simply make different choices.
Fortune and misfortune are not random conditions. They are the result of choices.
The seeds you sow, from moment to moment, from day to day, are the seeds that will grow. The choices you make will determine the consequences you experience.
Though that may at times seem like a burdensome responsibility, it is in fact a glorious opportunity. For it gives you the ability to point your life in whatever direction you choose.
The choice is yours, in every moment, every situation, every dilemma, every decision. Choose a life that is full, with meaning, with joy and with purpose.
-- Ralph Marston :)
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Guest
|
| Posted: 01/27/06 |
|
|
| :D :D :D :D
|
|
|
|
|
|
Frij.
Guest
|
| Posted: 10/27/07 |
|
|
| Anonymous wrote: |
Every cause has an effect. Every choice has a consequence.
If the consequences that come your way are not what you desire, there is a reliable way to change them. Simply make different choices.
Fortune and misfortune are not random conditions. They are the result of choices.
The seeds you sow, from moment to moment, from day to day, are the seeds that will grow. The choices you make will determine the consequences you experience.
Though that may at times seem like a burdensome responsibility, it is in fact a glorious opportunity. For it gives you the ability to point your life in whatever direction you choose.
The choice is yours, in every moment, every situation, every dilemma, every decision. Choose a life that is full, with meaning, with joy and with purpose.
-- Ralph Marston :) |
"Eat beans and suffer the consequences"
|
|
|
|
|
|
BrnAzn
Bronze Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 527
|
|
|
|
|
|
V8 at Tinagra
Guest
|
| Posted: 01/12/08 |
|
|
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;
the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light."
Plato 427 BC-347 BC
|
|
|
|
|
|
Imjustagirl
Guest
|
| Posted: 01/15/08 |
|
|
| BrnAzn wrote: |
 |
me too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
|
| Posted: 01/15/08 |
|
|
Do what you have to do.
O.J Simpson
|
|
|
|
|
|
thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
|
| Posted: 01/16/08 |
|
|
| Anonymous wrote: |
Every cause has an effect. Every choice has a consequence.
If the consequences that come your way are not what you desire, there is a reliable way to change them. Simply make different choices.
Fortune and misfortune are not random conditions. They are the result of choices.
The seeds you sow, from moment to moment, from day to day, are the seeds that will grow. The choices you make will determine the consequences you experience.
Though that may at times seem like a burdensome responsibility, it is in fact a glorious opportunity. For it gives you the ability to point your life in whatever direction you choose.
The choice is yours, in every moment, every situation, every dilemma, every decision. Choose a life that is full, with meaning, with joy and with purpose.
-- Ralph Marston :) |
I read this and it sounds true, “The seeds you sow, from moment to moment, from day to day, are the seeds that will grow,” but we humans seem to know this and yet continue sowing “bad” seeds. What if we approach this differently? What if we get deeper, much deeper into what choice is, regardless of the outcome? When I choose, what is my choice based on? Is it an action based on gaining something, fulfilling a purpose based on what is beneficial for me, for some desired end?
We are forever bound to act and suffer the consequence not because our actions were wrong, but because we try to change the consequence and the outcome. Once you learn to accept the consequence as the best possible outcome, the wrong actions will magically cease to exist. And I don’t mean one must necessarily like the outcome either. That is beside the point. We don’t have to like it, but the fact remains and complaining about is futile and very self-centered activity. Once you learn to accept the consequence, there will cease to be a wrong action.
When we are facing a choice, we all act upon it with the best possible tools we can muster at that particular moment. When one sees very clearly, one does not choose. Only confused mind chooses that says “this is right, this is wrong” and so on so forth.
As long as we refuse to look into things and our thoughts deeply and honestly ourselves, we'll continue to rely on someone, anyone, to sooth us with words, explanations, and theories.
Find out for yourself. We all must find out for ourselves. The fact remains that I will never get out of this vicious and senseless cycle of dividing and blaming as long as I don't take responsibility of my every second under this sun. When I am aware of my actions and I am aware of the fact that I can never control the consequence, there is a sense of peace and courage in my every action because it is not dependent on the outcome but is present and aware in action in doing. Choice less awareness.
Regards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
|
| Posted: 01/16/08 |
|
|
The knowledge of knowing a consequence, can only help to guide us when we make a choice.
There can be no consequence without the proper choice which leads to it. Everything in life can somehow be narrowed down to a decision. If a decision were to be non existent, then we would not be able to utilize consequence. We strive for better things because we've chosen to. Yet if we made the same choice, we might still see different consequences.
If one is searching for a more spiritual path thru life, he cannot achieve it unless he CHOOSES to live a more spiritual life. Therefore planting the seed which will bring forth spiritual awareness within him. Without choice life can be empty, choice is the pathway to consequence, and without choice consequence will cease to exist.
Whether youre right or wrong, either at work or play, thinking of politics or religion, choice is what stimulates your mind, and A consequence is simply the affirmation of the choice youve made.
|
|
|
|
|
|
thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
|
| Posted: 01/16/08 |
|
|
| Qstr82MNY wrote: |
The knowledge of knowing a consequence, can only help to guide us when we make a choice.
There can be no consequence without the proper choice which leads to it. Everything in life can somehow be narrowed down to a decision. If a decision were to be non existent, then we would not be able to utilize consequence. We strive for better things because we've chosen to. Yet if we made the same choice, we might still see different consequences.
If one is searching for a more spiritual path thru life, he cannot achieve it unless he CHOOSES to live a more spiritual life. Therefore planting the seed which will bring forth spiritual awareness within him. Without choice life can be empty, choice is the pathway to consequence, and without choice consequence will cease to exist.
Whether youre right or wrong, either at work or play, thinking of politics or religion, choice is what stimulates your mind, and A consequence is simply the affirmation of the choice youve made. |
To quote a line from an awesome movie "We can never see past the choices we don’t understand." The knowledge of knowing the consequence can guide us, that is true but the same knowledge is the culprit in causing us sorrow when it fails to materialize as we imagined and hoped. It is also true that everything in life can somehow be narrowed down to a decision, and I think what is more important is the fact that the decision not be the result of a conflicted mind which can only occur when we get attached to the "knowledge of knowing the consequence."
I hope I am not boring you with my lengthy response, but I’d like to demonstrate this with an example. It’s the end of the working day and when I look back, I realize that I constantly made choices throughout the day. Some of them I was aware of because at that moment I was conflicted about my choice and many of them were made without me thinking about them. The ones that I was aware of were made possible by my conflicted and conditioned mind who was trying to figure out the best outcome based on my memory and previous experiences (which are nothing but dead thought and are not helping me at all in being aware. Being aware does not mean learning and accumulating lessons from life. To be aware is to be without the scars of accumulated experience. After all, when the mind merely gathers experience according to its own wishes, it remains very shallow, superficial.), hence I was getting to be attached to that outcome. I was aware of this and therefore it failed to drag me down to that path which means by seeing this my attachment to the outcome was dissolved without a fight or resistance which would have made the entire thing into yet another conflict, etc, etc. Now the other choices that I made remain in the unknown area. I will not know their consequence until perhaps later and I could care less because no matter what the outcome, to me it would be the best possible outcome. After all I used the best tools available to me at the time of those decisions. This doesn’t mean I will like the outcome, but by realizing the fact which is the outcome, the suffering will cease to exist for me.
Your last sentence is interesting, "A consequence is simply the affirmation of the choice you've made." To me that sounds true, however the question that unfortunately bugs people is not that fact, the outcome, but the question "why" about the fact and the blame that goes with it. There would not be a suffering if we all realized that the "affirmation" does not care what we hoped when we were making the choice. Altogether, I like this topic and thank you for your response which makes it into a very interesting and honest dialog.
Regards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
|
| Posted: 01/16/08 |
|
|
I too like this topic and would like to thank your for your response as well.
I start off with a quote by Michel de Montaigne;
“We can be knowledgeable with other men’s knowledge, but we cannot be wise with other men’s wisdom”.
We seek wisdom because we yearn for it, from the very first time a child touches fire he understands the consequence of repeating this action. Though this child might not know it yet, he has already begun the process of knowledge.
I agree that choices and consequences are not always those which we pick. I act because I am the consequence, regardless of what outcome I would’ve wanted for the choice I made. I also cannot deny that I learn from my choices, not only the wrong ones but the right ones as well. Without the ability to learn and comprehend I can only suffer or give thanks to any presented outcome. “When things fail to materialize as we imagined or hoped”, what happens to us next is very familiar, we are presented with yet another choice. These choices are sometimes a few, and other times a bundle. Nevertheless we must decide for ourselves, and without knowledge or wisdom we will only repeat our mistakes.
On average, a person blinks more than 20,000 times per day. The outcome is that it keeps our eyes lubricated and ready to see. I like to call this a natural action, one which we do instantaneously without thought. These sorts of actions do not require knowledge, or do they? Nothing can occur within my body unless I allow it too, but in order for me to have complete control over my body; I must understand my body very well. Otherwise my body will act as needed on its own, without my approval. I think this system also applies for choices we make in our daily lives which we do not give much attention to.
I lost a parent a few years ago; this was the consequence of her illness. For some time I found myself asking many questions, and finding very few answers. The most difficult question to answer, was why? Why did this happen when, it could have been so much easier if it didn’t. This consequence was calmed when I realized the fact which is the outcome, and only then did the suffering cease. I am not in control of everything around me, but everything around does not control me either.
All other choices which require knowledge and/or wisdom are choices which we create.
These are for people who can base their decisions on carefully guided ideas and thoughts. We can learn from others mistakes, and succeed with the ideas of others, at the same time striving to create our own. I will make mistakes, and I will learn from them, and eventually I will learn how to profit from the mistake I make.
|
|
|
|
|
|
thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
|
| Posted: 01/17/08 |
|
|
| Qstr82MNY wrote: |
I too like this topic and would like to thank your for your response as well.
I start off with a quote by Michel de Montaigne;
“We can be knowledgeable with other men’s knowledge, but we cannot be wise with other men’s wisdom”.
We seek wisdom because we yearn for it, from the very first time a child touches fire he understands the consequence of repeating this action. Though this child might not know it yet, he has already begun the process of knowledge.
I agree that choices and consequences are not always those which we pick. I act because I am the consequence, regardless of what outcome I would’ve wanted for the choice I made. I also cannot deny that I learn from my choices, not only the wrong ones but the right ones as well. Without the ability to learn and comprehend I can only suffer or give thanks to any presented outcome. “When things fail to materialize as we imagined or hoped”, what happens to us next is very familiar, we are presented with yet another choice. These choices are sometimes a few, and other times a bundle. Nevertheless we must decide for ourselves, and without knowledge or wisdom we will only repeat our mistakes.
On average, a person blinks more than 20,000 times per day. The outcome is that it keeps our eyes lubricated and ready to see. I like to call this a natural action, one which we do instantaneously without thought. These sorts of actions do not require knowledge, or do they? Nothing can occur within my body unless I allow it too, but in order for me to have complete control over my body; I must understand my body very well. Otherwise my body will act as needed on its own, without my approval. I think this system also applies for choices we make in our daily lives which we do not give much attention to.
I lost a parent a few years ago; this was the consequence of her illness. For some time I found myself asking many questions, and finding very few answers. The most difficult question to answer, was why? Why did this happen when, it could have been so much easier if it didn’t. This consequence was calmed when I realized the fact which is the outcome, and only then did the suffering cease. I am not in control of everything around me, but everything around does not control me either.
All other choices which require knowledge and/or wisdom are choices which we create.
These are for people who can base their decisions on carefully guided ideas and thoughts. We can learn from others mistakes, and succeed with the ideas of others, at the same time striving to create our own. I will make mistakes, and I will learn from them, and eventually I will learn how to profit from the mistake I make. |
Qstr82MNY
This dialog started with the post that stated "Every cause has an effect. Every choice has a consequence." It also goes on to say “If the consequences that come your way are not what you desire, there is a reliable way to change them. Simply make different choices.” I would say this topic of choice and consequence, cause and effect comes down to this; the humanity would not suffer as much if we realized that the "consequence" does not care what we hoped when we were making the "choice."
Obviously we can “think twice” about our next choice, but the fact remains that our good intentions are not always enough. However, I do realize that by thinking twice and by doing our best for the best outcome will certainly put our mind to ease and let us be in peace regardless of the outcome, if we are willing to give ourselves a credit (which we don't, hence the unnecessary suffering). Also it could allow us to have a shift in our consciousness. Life will be more agreeable. I believe that’s what you are saying and I agree that is true. That’s fine, but that does not address the fact that majority of people in the world are unhappy, most of the time. They are happy neither with their choices nor with the consequences. The main reason we keep being stressed about our situation, about our actions, reactions, what we said, what we're told, why, why, why, etc. is because we fail to take responsibility for ourselves and we keep projecting these questions outside of us. We keep looking for outside answers and for help from someone. We keep looking for quotes and sayings similar to the original post to justify our condition. We fail to inquire into it deeply and try ourselves to find out why, hence the vicious cycle continues because we try to treat the symptoms instead of the cause. This is what I’d like to investigate and get into.
I look at this as being aware of the fact that it is not always the desired result which I get as a consequence of my “educated,” “tested”, “expected,” and “well thought-out” action. Sometimes even when it is my desired result, the same result could make my child unhappy and upset, hence making it not so desirable after all. So this is given, no arguing about it. Of course we can get into all kinds of causation theories and hypothesis and scientific, religious arguments, but we are here to find out for ourselves as simply as possible. We are all conditioned beings. I think what we are doing here in this dialog is trying to see if we can find a better approach to this “man-made”, “mind-made” issue. So we are not talking about the “cause” and “effect” as scientific problem to be solved but as psychological, human problem to be aware of.
My state of mind looks at cause and effect not as separate events but as one and the same. I realize this can be hard to understand by logic only, but bear with me. Perhaps Cause and Effect are not two separate things because when the effect has already occurred, only then we have a consequence, hence it is a memory, past, non-exist, cannot be changed, etc, etc. Again, this is abstract but deep down it makes sense.
There could be another approach. What if the Cause is actually prior to Effect? For example, I type this because later someone will use this posting for something else, or I found money because I will need it later for something. I became angry because I will later see that it is no good to get angry instead of if I get angry I will suffer some kind of negative consequence, etc, etc.
Thinking just logically sometimes does not answer anything but creates more questions. The mind must free itself from the known to enter into the Unknown. As one of the greatest thinkers once said, “This whole dialog is very important. There should not necessarily be an answer, but rather the question and answer continue till a question is left without an answer. This way the question is suspended between the two persons involved in this answer and question. If the question is left totally untouched by thought, it then has its own answer because the questioner and answerer, as persons, have disappeared. This is a form of dialog in which investigation reaches a certain point of intensity and depth, which then has a quality that thought can never reach. It is not a dialectical investigation of opinions, ideas, but rather exploration by two or many serious, good brains.”
Thank you my friend for your time and sharing
|
|
|
|
|
|
Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
|
| Posted: 01/17/08 |
|
|
| Its always a pleasure, see you around.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted: 01/30/08 |
|
|
| Thanks for the meaningful post :)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You can post new topics
You can reply to topics
You cannot edit your posts
You cannot delete your posts
You cannot vote in polls
|
|
|
Log in to check your private messages
Login
