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LK82
Bronze Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 445
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 Posted: 03/26/08 |
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One can say nations such as Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon opened their borders and accepted many Armenian refugees during the A.G. 1915. Though let’s remember that Armenians were able to gain the respect of the locals who lived in those countries, we we’re known as Christian, hard-working, family oriented and bonded people with whom they had not experienced any previous hardship from. In that part of the world that kind of characteristic goes a long way.
In contrast to this look at the millions of Iraqi refugees who are caught jobless and homeless along the borders of Syria, and Iran today. They are in such situations because many Syrians, and Iranians don’t see the possibility of co-occupying their territory with people whom they either cannot or don’t want to relate with.
818zTruest, would it be possible that you don’t put in so much information with just one post. It’s getting complicating, and there is so much I want to call you out on.
There are good and bad people every where is a cliché, we all know that there are good and bad people everywhere, in fact the majority of bad people know that people in general tend to think that way, which will help them in accomplishing their tyrannical agendas.
We all know there are good Muslims, I do, you do, I’m sure legerdemain does as well.
But this conversation about Muslims, which you have also managed to somehow bring into connection with Turkey, and Azerbaijan, and Armenia, is another sign of how you love to get off course and push certain agendas of your own.
Let’s take one thing at a time shall we? For example, most people acknowledge that not all Muslims are bad people, yet I also acknowledge that they cannot easily be trusted in the political arena. We and by we I mean Armenia, should be very cautious of our neighbors and their long term intentions.
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| After 1828, you Armenians, they would say, were with the help of Russians, brought in from Iran, Ottoman Empire, and other parts of Russia to rid the Azeri population of that region. In 1918, their were more Azeri's and Kurds living in Yerevan than Armenians |
Quote from 818ztruest^
This one statement of yours, has pushed me to a level where I am now in search of an Armenian historian to bring to this site, and debate you, and your faulty facts. Please don’t go far, stay tuned Im confident I will find someone.
Reconciliation is not something so easily suggested. And it’s not something for someone who spent years of hurting the population of Armenia has the right to suggest.
In one of my previous posts, under Qstr82MNY I asked some questions which were very similar to what you seem to be saying. The only difference was I never used the word reconciliation. Reconciliation is not something I would ever suggest, given that it was the Armenian population who suffered the A.G 1915, not the Turkish. They must push for reconciling, they should go out of their way to make sure our nation is comfortable and is no longer being threatened by its neighbors.
See what you seem to be doing, is confusing the economic and, therefore bettering the lives of Armenians, which will also unite Armenians throughout the world into returning to their mother land. With. We should reconcile with out neighbors, and during the USSR rule we didn’t have many Armenians in certain territories and there fore we should take this into consideration when debating which lands were in fact ours and which were not.
Where were Armenians in 1918? Why weren’t we in larger majorities in our “historic land”?
Last edited by LK82 on 03/26/08; edited 2 times in total |
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LK82
Bronze Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 445
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| Posted: 03/26/08 |
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| LK82 wrote: |
One can say nations such as Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon opened their borders and accepted many Armenian refugees during the A.G. 1915. Though let’s remember that Armenians were able to gain the respect of the locals who lived in those countries, we we’re known as Christian, hard-working, family oriented and bonded people with whom they had not experienced any previous hardship from. In that part of the world that kind of characteristic goes a long way.
In contrast to this look at the millions of Iraqi refugees who are caught jobless and homeless along the borders of Syria, and Iran today. They are in such situations because many Syrians, and Iranians don’t see the possibility of co-occupying their territory with people whom they either cannot or don’t want to relate with.
818zTruest, would it be possible that you don’t put in so much information with just one post. It’s getting complicating, and there is so much I want to call you out on.
There are good and bad people every where is a cliché, we all know that there are good and bad people everywhere, in fact the majority of bad people know that people in general tend to think that way, which will help them in accomplishing their tyrannical agendas.
We all know there are good Muslims, I do, you do, I’m sure legerdemain does as well.
But this conversation about Muslims, which you have also managed to somehow bring into connection with Turkey, and Azerbaijan, and Armenia, is another sign of how you love to get off course and push certain agendas of your own.
Let’s take one thing at a time shall we? For example, most people acknowledge that not all Muslims are bad people, yet I also acknowledge that they cannot easily be trusted in the political arena. We and by we I mean Armenia, should be very cautious of our neighbors and their long term intentions.
| Quote: |
| After 1828, you Armenians, they would say, were with the help of Russians, brought in from Iran, Ottoman Empire, and other parts of Russia to rid the Azeri population of that region. In 1918, their were more Azeri's and Kurds living in Yerevan than Armenians |
Quote from 818ztruest^
This one statement of yours, has pushed me to a level where I am now in search of an Armenian historian to bring to this site, and debate you, and your faulty facts. Please don’t go far, stay tuned Im confident I will find someone.
Reconciliation is not something so easily suggested. And it’s not something for someone who spent years of hurting the population of Armenia has the right to suggest.
In one of my previous posts, under Qstr82MNY I asked some questions which were very similar to what you seem to be saying. The only difference was I never used the word reconciliation. Reconciliation is not something I would ever suggest, given that it was the Armenian population who suffered the A.G 1915, not the Turkish. They must push for reconciling, they should go out of their way to make sure our nation is comfortable and is no longer being threatened by its neighbors.
See what you seem to be doing, is confusing the economic and, therefore bettering the lives of Armenians, which will also unite Armenians throughout the world into returning to their mother land. With. We should reconcile with out neighbors, and during the USSR rule we didn’t have many Armenians in certain territories and there fore we should take this into consideration when debating which lands were in fact ours and which were not.
Where were Armenians in 1918? Why weren’t we in larger majorities in our “historic land”? |
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LK82
Bronze Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 445
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818zTrUeSt
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| Posted: 03/26/08 |
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I'll comment back to your post tomorrow (3/27/08), sometime in the afternoon. I really enjoy your opinion and to debate somebody that actually questions me in a serious manner, and has different positions. BY you questioning me, I feel it makes me review my position, and see were my flaws on my stances are. And if I'm wrong, I'll acknowledge it.
I'll respond sometime around late noon. It's going to be an interesting post. Let's see were it takes us. :brave:
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LK82
Bronze Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 445
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| Posted: 03/26/08 |
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I look forward to it.
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818zTrUeSt
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| Posted: 03/27/08 |
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I like to first start of by stating that I do not intentionally cram so much information into one post. Its just that sometimes when i really get into a subject, i start wondering of to history as an example, and i try to coherently connect it as a precedent to the current situation. I have a lot of fans, such as Dr.P, who claim that "I think I'm smart and know everything." Well, I don't know everything. I use logic, and come to my conclusions that i tell you guys. Take little look inside my mind.
"We all know there are good Muslims, I do, you do, I’m sure legerdemain does as well."
I would strongly disagree with the statement above that you mentioned. Looking at the current trend of new video's about ISLAM he is posting, his not going to change. He lives in Germany is making video's about Cyprus, and how the Greeks should ethnically cleanse TC (Turkish Cyprus), and take back their "historic land." Than he moves on to Kosovo. He says Kosovo is "historic land, Albanians have no business in historic Serbian territory, ... Serbs should fight to get their country back." I'm sorry, are you going to grab a gun and fight against NATO troops? Have you ever even had a gun pointed at you? Have you ever been shot? Shit man, this ain't no joke. War is not some sort of freakin game. I can't stand it sometimes when Armenians start talking about "Invading Western Armenia." You guys can't even get your shit straight in your 28,000sq km land. Think about that before you even dream about fighting Turkey in a war. How retarded is that? Look at the disparity of the Armenians living in the Republic of Armenia. Can somebody tell me why 20 years after the 88' earthquake, we still have people living in those temporary Soviet trailers? There refugees in their own city. How about we start spreading the government money across to the places that really need it, like the other cities and villages. It's fuc*ed up that Yerevan is slowly starting to look like Paris, and our villages are 60 years back in technology. They don't even have toilets in most parts of Armenia, outside of Yerevan. Is this the Armenia you want? Why hasn't the Great President K. done something about this problem? Why the hell are we spending 480 million on our military, and spending crackers and chips on our other cities and towns. Why is Vanadzor, even worse off than Gyumri? You need to let the people live, allow them to open up business, and inspire innovation. Thats why you need a liberal party like HHSh, and a liberal preisent like LTP, and not a communist-socialist like Kocharian. (Which till this day i haven't seen him make a cross on April 24.)
Let's get back and talk about the dream of going to war with Turkey in the near future. How can you even imagine thinking about going to war with Turkey? People who make statements about jumping to war are in my opinion, like how Dr. P always says, "crazy." You have no more than 3.2 Million people living in Armenia. By 2050, the Turks are projecting a population of 100 Million, this is their source. Back to the point, given number of people living in Armenia, how many are fit for military service? With what money are you going to fight a long term war against Turkey? Don't forget, your dependent on gas from Russia. And when they bomb that pipeline, what are you going to do? Is it going to be a cold winter?With what food and water, are you now going to give to the soldiers? Whose side is the international community going to side with? There is billion and billions of investments from other countries inside Turkey, will those firms lobby their government against Armenia to protect their interest? There are about 5 million ethnic Turks/Kurds living in what is eastern Turkey, what do you do with them? Is the internationally community just going to allow you to ethnically cleanse them? Will that now not create a humanitarian disaster? Will international human rights groups now lobby their government to take some sort of actions against you? Can you assimilate those people, who you cannot ethnically cleanse into your society? What will be the effect and consequence to the Armenian society? If we Armenians are always diving each other by location, what is going to persuade me that we will just open our arms and accept them into our Christian culture? (see im 818zTruest not 323zTrUeSt, j/k :P)
The rules to the game of the world we live in is decided by powers. They decide what is wrong or right, because in reality, the philosophical question of what is wrong or right is an opinion. What might be right in my culture or the the way i think could be wrong in yours. Why is it that after Armenians captured Shahumian in Karabax in the 90s, before they withdrew from it, they didn't invade Kirovabad/Ganja? I mean they were hours away from occupying the second largest city of Azerbaijan. Why didn't they? Because Turkey pressured the U.S., which pressured Russia, and Russia under the heat told the Armenians to withdraw or else they will withdrew their support of the war. What is my point? Going to war with Turkey is a bad idea for the reasons above. The only way you could get your historic land back, is if you enter another world war, and Turkey really fuc's up and decides to go against Moscow and Washington. Until than my Armenian comrades, keep dreaming.
So what do we do knowing we can't realistically go to war against Turkey? Are the Russians in a rush to go to war against anybody or jepordize their relations with many nations? The process of reconcilation needs to happen between our to nations. Every has won and lsot land throughout history. Boarders are not absoulte. They always change. Why are we as the Armenian people afraid of friendly relations with the Turks? Please answer that in your reply? Why do the Turks reject any relations with Armenians? Why is it that, the same way we precive Turks to be blood-thirst, rapist, murders, theives ---- is the same way they precive us to be? Is it culturally build in us to be enemies forever? I personally belive, that Armenia, a historically weak land lack nation, needs to extend its arm out a little more. The situation is extremely complex, is not as easy as we might think of it to be. And we will see after the Karabax dispute is solved, what will occur, and the actions the preisdent of Armenia decides to take. Oh yea, i also think within the next 5 years, if the Karabax conflict is not sloved, expect to go to war!
Moving forward to Serj Sarkisyan. I was before the election, a medicore fan of Levon Ter-Petrosyan. I was not really a "anti-Serj" person. Till this day, i don't think Serj is the real bad guy in all of these. His like the guy who is stuck covering up for all the bad bullshit that the real criminal Robert Kocharian has done. Robert is the real criminal and enemy to the Armenian people. You know, i hear a lot of users on this site, like Dr.P, telling me about LTP and his "Soviet mansion and a lot of money." Okay???? Let's compare. Is LTP mansion like on an entire mountain? Does he like have his own church in his backyard? Does he have a tiger as a pet cat? Was his son the guy in charge of the monetary exchange rate of the dram, guess who gets the lope hole tax money? Did LTP sell the nuclear power plant, coerce the sell of all major diamond, coal, gold companies, and the nationalized train railways? People seem to miss the fact how bobby has slowly sold every valuable national resource to, guess who? One nation should not have that much influence in your internal politics. If it does, convince me that then we are independent and actually sovereign. Are we? People also seem to forget about October 27,1999. Isn't weird, the main guys forming the opposition to Preisdent Kocharian were murdered? And then the judge in charge of that case was imprisoned? And they burned all the archives to the case and the incident? Just a little weird a couple weeks before election.
Where is Armenia now, and where is it heading? I'm really worried about the future of Armenia. The differences between Serj's predientcy and Kocharians is going to be March 1 and 2. He now has a divided population that strongly resents his legitimacy as president. Thats a major problem, even if we assume the numbers that the government gave us is correct. If Levon supposedly received 23% of all votes. Now after March 1, the neutral Armenians, like how i was, is probably dissatisfied with the government's response and the life's lost, you can now give or take that about 1/3 of all people who voted, thinks Serj is not the legitimate winner of election. This is the governments figure that i just analyzed. Now what does he have to do effectively rule? How is he going to govern against the 1/3 and growing population?Is he going to harass and imprison all opposition leaders and media for the next 10 years? And what if we don't find a solution to the Karabax dispute? Why would the 1/3 of opposition LTP supporters go and fight for karabax, when it was karabax that attacked them on March 1 &2? This is the reality. Lav, i'll wait for your reply, and get back to you tomorrow LK82.
I also want thistooshallpass to reply.
Dr. P if your not lazy, please respond.
Don-Sevak, if your not scared, please respond.
I'm calling you guys out. 
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Dr. P™
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| Posted: 03/27/08 |
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I'm lazy but I will respond to one of your points...Kocharian is the president, he has every right to have a mansion. Last time I checked, all presidents and prime ministers of countries (Including the U.S.) live like kings.
That is all.
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LK82
Bronze Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 445
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| Posted: 03/27/08 |
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I congratulate you on not spewing any propaganda this time, welcome to a normal conversation.
| Quote: |
| would strongly disagree with the statement above that you mentioned. Looking at the current trend of new video's about ISLAM he is posting, his not going to change |
Quote from 818z^
I can agree, and disagree. I can disagree because he expresses the sentiment of many Europeans, and being that he lives in Europe and experiences it first hand, I view his sentiment as more authentic. To prove that he does see some good in Muslims, he doesn’t mention anything about Muslims consolidated to their “historic lands”; in fact he completely leaves them out of his video, and instead continues his verbal assault on the Turkish government and cypress’s current president, who happens to be a Christian.
I’ve said before that I won’t align myself with his views; I find them too extreme and full of anger, just as I found your statements of some Armenians who voiced their dissatisfaction with their Christian religious beliefs.
| Quote: |
| Have you ever even had a gun pointed at you? Have you ever been shot? Shit man, this ain't no joke. War is not some sort of freakin game. I can't stand it sometimes when Armenians start talking about "Invading Western Armenia." You guys can't even get your shit straight in your 28,000sq km land. |
Quote from 818z^
Who are you referring to? You continue with your anger rants, you’re ranting. I will assume that I am in some way being included in your statement above. I assume, because I have stated on this site that I would go and fight to defend Armenia if ever a war escalated. I lose sleep at times when I hear or read about an attack on Armenian soil, because unlike some, I do want to defend my country, and I will, with or without you’re condolence.
I also do know how to hold a gun, I also know how to shoot different kind of guns, and it angers me to think that you can sit behind your computer and once again begin with your hate rants about what you think the modern Armenian man should be compounded of.
At the same time you want me to respect you’re opinion.
| Quote: |
| Can somebody tell me why 20 years after the 88' earthquake, we still have people living in those temporary Soviet trailers? There refugees in their own city. How about we start spreading the government money across to the places that really need it, like the other cities and villages. It's fuc*ed up that Yerevan is slowly starting to look like Paris, and our villages are 60 years back in technology. They don't even have toilets in most parts of Armenia, outside of Yerevan. Is this the Armenia you want? Why hasn't the Great President K. done something about this problem? Why the hell are we spending 480 million on our military, and spending crackers and chips on our other cities and towns. Why is Vanadzor, even worse off than Gyumri? You need to let the people live, allow them to open up business, and inspire innovation. Thats why you need a liberal party like HHSh, and a liberal preisent like LTP, and not a communist-socialist like Kocharian. (Which till this day i haven't seen him make a cross on April 24.) |
Quote from 818z^
I thought you were going to post something that was opposite to what I agree with.
You took a conversation about Legers hatred of Muslims, into a conversation about =
| Quote: |
| Before Armenians, who lived in those land? Do you know? Many tribes came and went on the Eastern Anatolia region. The Turks have been living in those lands for over 900 years. They spilled blood conquering and defending it when it was in their possession just like the Armenians, Byzantines, Romans, Mongols, Persians, and everybody else that governed that region. So i don't think thats a good point to make to anybody outside your race, because they look at your face as say"wtf." And you will definitely not get any sympathy from the Turks. 900 years, thats not a month or year they have been living in Anatolia. Do you know why Azerbaijan claims Karabax and Armenia to be apart of their historic territory? In 1828, when the Russians invaded Persia and capture what is the region as we know the Caucasus, their was only 30 thousand Armenians living in that land |
Quote from 818z^
Historical borders have been drawn and redrawn for centuries. The point is not only about who holds current power and holds the magic marker for such drawings. The point is in the recognition of the A.G.1915. The point is in this. You argue that Kocharian has committed crimes against the people of Armenia and should receive his due diligence.
I agree. Where is your sense of judgment when it comes in questioning the unethical and brutal behavior of Armenia’s neighbors towards Armenia? They should also acknowledge their misdeeds; this decade’s long struggle of views should be questioned in a public forum, with either side concluding to an outcome once and for all.
Once again the problems lies in the hands of those who control Armenia, and those who want to control Armenia from the outside.
| Quote: |
| Let's get back and talk about the dream of going to war with Turkey in the near future. How can you even imagine thinking about going to war with Turkey? |
Quote from 818z^
Who are you talking to, how is this response to my previous post, when I never mentioned anything about a war with Turkey. Again, you’re on a self righteous over eager ranting session. Why should Armenia go to war with Turkey and would we win or lose is not the question. The question is how far backwards we can bend.
Turkey dealt a lethal blow to Armenians in 1915 with the A.G. And yet today, decades later, we live in an era where we hurt with the memory of this tragic event. Asking for an apology is being translated as pondering war.
Should I remove my desire for the recognition of the slaughter of my ancestors, my blood-line, to which I know the names of those who were killed during the Armenian genocide, simply because I fear a great Turkish empire. I’ll tell you what I fear much more than the Turkish Empire, and that’s the another A.G. 1915. History will always repeat itself, and mankind will always look to its past for guidance into the future. It’s called precedence, you see it in courtrooms, and you use it in every day life. War is not a solution, it is a problem which prevents a solution, and it is a problem which will throw the progress of our country back another 100 years if ever happened today. War will make us a guaranteed 3rd world country for another century if not more. Yet, at the same time, we should not be afraid of war, and we shouldn’t promote the idea of failure in the face of war either.
Let Armenia enter into serious negotiations with Turkey and Azerbaijan. We can find a diplomatic solution and co-exists. Giving up more of our lands will be a slap in the face of an already wounded human being. The scars of the genocide run deep my friend, and some things are worth dying for.
I have some hopes in regards to what Serzh can do for Armenia. I have no reason to agree with LTP or the things he is suggesting. The fact that he has apologized doesn’t make me a part of his crew. Sometimes people apologize only when they either need to or stand to gain something. If LTP was so sincere about his apology, why did he wait so long to make it public? Armenians have been thru some very difficult years since his departure. Many people could’ve used his help, and I admit he could have been very useful to our country. There is too much corruption in Armenia; many of us know the conditions this criminality is causing on our people. And I also acknowledge that the condition we are in today is a slow progress from the worse condition we were in 15 years ago.
You’re worried about the direction Armenias headed in? The only reason Armenia is divided right now is because of LTP. Armenia was many things a few month ago, divided was not one of them. There were/are many organizations made up of very successful business men from Armenia, EU, and America who have been brain storming on ways to improve Armenians economy. Where have you been, all LTP has done right now is halt any progress they have made. Its turned a once understandable government into an unstable part of the region. We don’t know what will happen, investors will flee, those who had intentions to invest will not, they will wait to see what this current upheaval will leave in Armenia at the end. Mark my words, LTP is not the answer Armenia needs, and what LTP has done has hurt Armenia in the long run. I don’t need to respond to you in a matter of days, ill respond to you like I do always, on the spot and ready to talk, go back to your thinking pad. And if you get off topic again I’ll call you out on it like I always have.
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818zTrUeSt
Guest
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| Posted: 03/27/08 |
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| LK82 wrote: |
I congratulate you on not spewing any propaganda this time, welcome to a normal conversation.
| Quote: |
| would strongly disagree with the statement above that you mentioned. Looking at the current trend of new video's about ISLAM he is posting, his not going to change |
Quote from 818z^
I can agree, and disagree. I can disagree because he expresses the sentiment of many Europeans, and being that he lives in Europe and experiences it first hand, I view his sentiment as more authentic. To prove that he does see some good in Muslims, he doesn’t mention anything about Muslims consolidated to their “historic lands”; in fact he completely leaves them out of his video, and instead continues his verbal assault on the Turkish government and cypress’s current president, who happens to be a Christian.
I’ve said before that I won’t align myself with his views; I find them too extreme and full of anger, just as I found your statements of some Armenians who voiced their dissatisfaction with their Christian religious beliefs.
| Quote: |
| Have you ever even had a gun pointed at you? Have you ever been shot? Shit man, this ain't no joke. War is not some sort of freakin game. I can't stand it sometimes when Armenians start talking about "Invading Western Armenia." You guys can't even get your shit straight in your 28,000sq km land. |
Quote from 818z^
Who are you referring to? You continue with your anger rants, you’re ranting. I will assume that I am in some way being included in your statement above. I assume, because I have stated on this site that I would go and fight to defend Armenia if ever a war escalated. I lose sleep at times when I hear or read about an attack on Armenian soil, because unlike some, I do want to defend my country, and I will, with or without you’re condolence.
I also do know how to hold a gun, I also know how to shoot different kind of guns, and it angers me to think that you can sit behind your computer and once again begin with your hate rants about what you think the modern Armenian man should be compounded of.
At the same time you want me to respect you’re opinion.
| Quote: |
| Can somebody tell me why 20 years after the 88' earthquake, we still have people living in those temporary Soviet trailers? There refugees in their own city. How about we start spreading the government money across to the places that really need it, like the other cities and villages. It's fuc*ed up that Yerevan is slowly starting to look like Paris, and our villages are 60 years back in technology. They don't even have toilets in most parts of Armenia, outside of Yerevan. Is this the Armenia you want? Why hasn't the Great President K. done something about this problem? Why the hell are we spending 480 million on our military, and spending crackers and chips on our other cities and towns. Why is Vanadzor, even worse off than Gyumri? You need to let the people live, allow them to open up business, and inspire innovation. Thats why you need a liberal party like HHSh, and a liberal preisent like LTP, and not a communist-socialist like Kocharian. (Which till this day i haven't seen him make a cross on April 24.) |
Quote from 818z^
I thought you were going to post something that was opposite to what I agree with.
You took a conversation about Legers hatred of Muslims, into a conversation about =
| Quote: |
| Before Armenians, who lived in those land? Do you know? Many tribes came and went on the Eastern Anatolia region. The Turks have been living in those lands for over 900 years. They spilled blood conquering and defending it when it was in their possession just like the Armenians, Byzantines, Romans, Mongols, Persians, and everybody else that governed that region. So i don't think thats a good point to make to anybody outside your race, because they look at your face as say"wtf." And you will definitely not get any sympathy from the Turks. 900 years, thats not a month or year they have been living in Anatolia. Do you know why Azerbaijan claims Karabax and Armenia to be apart of their historic territory? In 1828, when the Russians invaded Persia and capture what is the region as we know the Caucasus, their was only 30 thousand Armenians living in that land |
Quote from 818z^
Historical borders have been drawn and redrawn for centuries. The point is not only about who holds current power and holds the magic marker for such drawings. The point is in the recognition of the A.G.1915. The point is in this. You argue that Kocharian has committed crimes against the people of Armenia and should receive his due diligence.
I agree. Where is your sense of judgment when it comes in questioning the unethical and brutal behavior of Armenia’s neighbors towards Armenia? They should also acknowledge their misdeeds; this decade’s long struggle of views should be questioned in a public forum, with either side concluding to an outcome once and for all.
Once again the problems lies in the hands of those who control Armenia, and those who want to control Armenia from the outside.
| Quote: |
| Let's get back and talk about the dream of going to war with Turkey in the near future. How can you even imagine thinking about going to war with Turkey? |
Quote from 818z^
Who are you talking to, how is this response to my previous post, when I never mentioned anything about a war with Turkey. Again, you’re on a self righteous over eager ranting session. Why should Armenia go to war with Turkey and would we win or lose is not the question. The question is how far backwards we can bend.
Turkey dealt a lethal blow to Armenians in 1915 with the A.G. And yet today, decades later, we live in an era where we hurt with the memory of this tragic event. Asking for an apology is being translated as pondering war.
Should I remove my desire for the recognition of the slaughter of my ancestors, my blood-line, to which I know the names of those who were killed during the Armenian genocide, simply because I fear a great Turkish empire. I’ll tell you what I fear much more than the Turkish Empire, and that’s the another A.G. 1915. History will always repeat itself, and mankind will always look to its past for guidance into the future. It’s called precedence, you see it in courtrooms, and you use it in every day life. War is not a solution, it is a problem which prevents a solution, and it is a problem which will throw the progress of our country back another 100 years if ever happened today. War will make us a guaranteed 3rd world country for another century if not more. Yet, at the same time, we should not be afraid of war, and we shouldn’t promote the idea of failure in the face of war either.
Let Armenia enter into serious negotiations with Turkey and Azerbaijan. We can find a diplomatic solution and co-exists. Giving up more of our lands will be a slap in the face of an already wounded human being. The scars of the genocide run deep my friend, and some things are worth dying for.
I have some hopes in regards to what Serzh can do for Armenia. I have no reason to agree with LTP or the things he is suggesting. The fact that he has apologized doesn’t make me a part of his crew. Sometimes people apologize only when they either need to or stand to gain something. If LTP was so sincere about his apology, why did he wait so long to make it public? Armenians have been thru some very difficult years since his departure. Many people could’ve used his help, and I admit he could have been very useful to our country. There is too much corruption in Armenia; many of us know the conditions this criminality is causing on our people. And I also acknowledge that the condition we are in today is a slow progress from the worse condition we were in 15 years ago.
You’re worried about the direction Armenias headed in? The only reason Armenia is divided right now is because of LTP. Armenia was many things a few month ago, divided was not one of them. There were/are many organizations made up of very successful business men from Armenia, EU, and America who have been brain storming on ways to improve Armenians economy. Where have you been, all LTP has done right now is halt any progress they have made. Its turned a once understandable government into an unstable part of the region. We don’t know what will happen, investors will flee, those who had intentions to invest will not, they will wait to see what this current upheaval will leave in Armenia at the end. Mark my words, LTP is not the answer Armenia needs, and what LTP has done has hurt Armenia in the long run. I don’t need to respond to you in a matter of days, ill respond to you like I do always, on the spot and ready to talk, go back to your thinking pad. And if you get off topic again I’ll call you out on it like I always have.
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I have work and i go to college. My English skills are not as good or fast as yours. So please don't expect an on the spot 8 paragraph response. If you don't like it, than close the thread down.
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818zTrUeSt
Guest
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| Posted: 03/27/08 |
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| IF you copy and paste what i wrote down in Mic Word, it comes down to 4 full pages (double spaced) -1,644 words. This ain't my life buddy. I told you in the beginning of my introduction. It's fun debating you, but i don't have the damn time to write this much every few hours. I am like not "Parap" U No?
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Thug By Nature II
New Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 41
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| Posted: 03/27/08 |
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| Summarize it loll
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LK82
Bronze Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 445
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| Posted: 03/27/08 |
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Hey buddy(818z), think twice next time you want to spew your rants, and then try to make people close an eye by changing subjects.
I dont close threads down mods do that, and I'm at work, thats all about my personal life.
Adios.
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818zTrUeSt
Guest
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| Posted: 03/27/08 |
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| LK82 wrote: |
Hey buddy(818z), think twice next time you want to spew your rants, and then try to make people close an eye by changing subjects.
I dont close threads down mods do that, and I'm at work, thats all about my personal life.
Adios. |
Rants? No more, I'm tired of this crap. I will not repeat myself. If you support terrorist Robert Kocharian, his stooge Serj (which is not even an Armenian name), Tigran Torisyan - the rat looking figure, and H1 - which makes Turkeys denial of Armenian Genocide look like a joke, than your a lost individual.
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| Its just that sometimes when i really get into a subject, i start wondering of to history as an example, and i try to coherently connect it as a precedent to the current situation. |
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| Take little look inside my mind. |
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They decide what is wrong or right, because in reality, the philosophical question of what is wrong or right is an opinion. |
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| Did LTP sell the nuclear power plant, coerce the sell of all major diamond, coal, gold companies, and the nationalized train railways? People seem to miss the fact how bobby has slowly sold every valuable national resource to, guess who? |
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| People also seem to forget about October 27,1999. |
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| Isn't weird, the main guys forming the opposition to Preisdent Kocharian were murdered? And then the judge in charge of that case was imprisoned? And they burned all the archives to the case and the incident? Just a little weird a couple weeks before election. |
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| How is he going to govern against the 1/3 and growing population?Is he going to harass and imprison all opposition leaders and media for the next 10 years? |
Who's changing the subject? Learn to read. Cheeroz
ՀՀՇ
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LK82
Bronze Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 445
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| Posted: 03/27/08 |
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Youre ranting again. Count to ten.
Congratulations! You have been banned from my attention span until further notice.
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818zTrUeSt
Guest
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| Posted: 03/28/08 |
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| LK82 wrote: |
Youre ranting again. Count to ten.
Congratulations! You have been banned from my attention span until further notice. |
ՀՀՇ
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818zTrUeSt
Guest
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| Posted: 03/28/08 |
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| LK82 wrote: |
Youre ranting again. Count to ten.
Congratulations! You have been banned from my attention span until further notice. |
Just like the HHK. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. If you don't like the truth, you ban the opposition down or kill them ha? Looks like your more a Serzhakan than your initial neutrality claim.
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Dr. P™
Guest
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| Posted: 03/28/08 |
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LK82 I told you this guy's a freak. Now was he worth your time?
This guys a plant sent in by LTP and his cronies to rile up and get Armenians killed for stupid reasons.
Oh and he goes to college AND works. Wow! He's the only one that does that! :roll:
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Dr. P™
Guest
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| Posted: 03/28/08 |
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| 818zTrUeSt wrote: |
| IF you copy and paste what i wrote down in Mic Word, it comes down to 4 full pages (double spaced) -1,644 words. This ain't my life buddy. I told you in the beginning of my introduction. It's fun debating you, but i don't have the damn time to write this much every few hours. I am like not "Parap" U No? |
[Sarcasm on]
Yeah, and you are a master debater as well with zero time on your hands.
[/Sarcasm off]
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Dr. P™
Guest
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| Posted: 03/28/08 |
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By the way, since I can't edit posts, I forgot to add this:
818s why are you in America? Get out of my country. Stop sucking the benefits from this country. I bet you get toshak...that's my tax money. I'm practically paying your apartment bill. Go back to Armenia and fight for Levon there.
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Don-Sevak
Silver Member
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 1096
Location: Belgia
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| Posted: 03/28/08 |
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I'm glad to see you did post something about this matter as you told me Qst., i will read it carefully (all of it ) and will give my response afterwards.
And 818Trust, i'm not that kind of person who gets intimidated by lies.
Btw, for the record, were you born in the USA, or were you there in Armenia , when your holy Levon "took care" of our people?
Ill respond after further notice.
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