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thistooshallpass
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Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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 Posted: 02/01/08 |
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We seek happiness through things, through relationship, through thoughts, ideas. So things, relationship, and ideas become all-important and not happiness. When we seek happiness through something, then the thing becomes of greater value than happiness itself. When stated in this manner, the problem sounds simple and it is simple. We seek happiness in property, in family, in name; then property, family, idea become all-important, for then happiness is sought through a means, and then the means destroys the end. Can happiness be found through any means, through anything made by the hand or by the mind? Things, relationship, and ideas are so transparently impermanent, we are ever made unhappy by them. …Things are impermanent, they wear out and are lost; relationship is constant friction and death awaits; ideas and beliefs have no stability, no permanency. We seek happiness in them and yet do not realize their impermanency. So sorrow becomes our constant companion and overcoming it our problem.
To find out the true meaning of happiness, we must explore the river of self-knowledge. Self-knowledge is not an end in itself. Is there a source to a stream? Every drop of water from the beginning to the end makes the river. To imagine that we will find happiness at the source is to be mistaken. It is to be found where you are on the river of self-knowledge.
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V8 on methane
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| Posted: 02/01/08 |
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Yes. "Happiness" can be found through things.
Happiness and the chemicals thereof are controlled by our brains. Brains are indeed "things". Therfore, yes.
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 02/02/08 |
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| V8 on methane wrote: |
Yes. "Happiness" can be found through things.
Happiness and the chemicals thereof are controlled by our brains. Brains are indeed "things". Therfore, yes. |
Interesting. If chemicals are controlled by our brains then who controls our brains? If you imply that you and your brain are separate entities then I would see your point, but I am not sure that is what you imply. If you and your brain are one and the same, then why go through all the trouble of accumuating thing and then go on to tell your brain to feel happy. Wouldn't it be easier and simpler to just control your chemicals through your brain? Is it possible to tell your brain to be happy or to command it to create the neccessary chemical so you can be happy? What happens when the accumulated things are gone or better yet someone tries to take it away from you, and in your case that someone is trying to take away your happiness?
Now, seriously, is it that we are seeking happiness or is it that we are seeking gratification of some kind from which we hope to derive happiness? There is a difference between happiness and gratification. Can you seek happiness? Perhaps you can find gratification but surely you cannot find happiness. Happiness is derivative; it is a by-product of something else. So, before we give our minds and hearts to something which demands a great deal of earnestness, attention, thought, care, we must find out, must we not?, what it is that we are seeking; whether it is happiness, or gratification?
So, if we want to find out what is this extraordinary state that lies beyond the vagaries of the mind—really experience it, live with it, and know its full meaning—surely there must be freedom, and freedom implies harder work than most of us are willing to undertake. We would rather be led than discover, but one cannot be led to truth. Do please understand this very simple fact. No swami, no system of yoga, no religious organization, no doctrine or belief can lead you to the discovery of truth. Only the free mind can discover. That is obvious, is it not? You cannot discover the truth of anything by merely being told what it is because then the discovery is not yours. If you are merely told what happiness is, is that happiness?
Last edited by thistooshallpass on 02/02/08; edited 1 time in total |
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V8 baffled
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| Posted: 02/02/08 |
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| I dont agree with your definitions of gratification & happiness.
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 02/02/08 |
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| V8 baffled wrote: |
| I dont agree with your definitions of gratification & happiness. |
There is nothing wrong with not agreeing and it is not even important to elaborate as to why you do not agree. I am not bent on proving anything or being proved anything. However, what I am for is for being honest, especially with myself and not being scared of what I see. It is almost impossible to communicate with each other unless both of us have the intention of understanding and going beyond mere words. After all only you can know what it is you are here for and what it is that makes you be at peace. No one can give you the answers but you. Thanks.
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Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
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| Posted: 02/02/08 |
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| Let me smoke a fat one and join this conversation.
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 02/02/08 |
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| Qstr82MNY wrote: |
| Let me smoke a fat one and join this conversation. |
:)
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V8, Last of the
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| Posted: 02/03/08 |
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| thistooshallpass wrote: |
| V8 baffled wrote: |
| I dont agree with your definitions of gratification & happiness. |
There is nothing wrong with not agreeing and it is not even important to elaborate as to why you do not agree. I am not bent on proving anything or being proved anything. However, what I am for is for being honest, especially with myself and not being scared of what I see. It is almost impossible to communicate with each other unless both of us have the intention of understanding and going beyond mere words. After all only you can know what it is you are here for and what it is that makes you be at peace. No one can give you the answers but you. Thanks. |
Anyway, :roll: all this linguistic hocus pocus aside, take these for instance:
The unusual happy homeless guy w/o a care in the world. His brain has obviously found happiness w/o the accrual of consumer goods.
Also the mental care resident who's brain imbues him of happiness. Looking at his countenance one can tell he too has reached happiness w/o striving for objects of desire.
The point is the road to happiness isn't always paved with objects. At least I believe that is what I started to retort.
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Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
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| Posted: 02/03/08 |
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I am here to live remember? So are you, and every one else. The only thing that can bring happiness is happiness itself. My conscious mind decides what to seek happiness in, whether it's in material things or spiritual comfort.
I cannot choose to leave all which is material, yet live in a material environment, nor can I seek happiness when, that which makes me happy I do not possess or understand.
If one were to be in love, and then not possess whom they loved, then they too would not be happy. Love is not a material “thing” it is different. Yet possessing it brings happiness.
To find happiness should'nt we ask ourselves, aside from all the material things, social structures and religion, what makes ME happy? One of the problems with answering this question, is that most people don’t know what they have until its gone, and assume that happiness is something they must chase, not realizing its something they already possess.
I would have to choose health as my ultimate answer to what makes me happy, to be healthy and enjoy life. Everything else can either be bought, stolen, or taken.
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 02/03/08 |
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| Qstr82MNY wrote: |
| most people don’t know what they have until its gone, and assume that happiness is something they must chase, not realizing its something they already possess. |
Only If this sentence could be trully understood by us... not just repeated because it sounds true and all that, but wholeheartedly understood with our whole being then it could do wonders every second.
Now I can't help but wonder whatever strain that "fat one" was. :D
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| Posted: 02/03/08 |
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| thistooshallpass wrote: |
| Qstr82MNY wrote: |
| most people don’t know what they have until its gone, and assume that happiness is something they must chase, not realizing its something they already possess. |
Only If this sentence could be trully understood by us... not just repeated because it sounds true and all that, but wholeheartedly understood with our whole being then it could do wonders every second.
Now I can't help but wonder whatever strain that "fat one" was. :D |
I understand this, that I know what I know, and would like to know the things that I dont. And once in awhile would like to repeat things that sound...hmmmm....cool when smoking a Red Haired Kush grown in the backyards of a freezing city........ :D Whats your prefference?
Qstr82MNY was too lazy to log in.
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 02/03/08 |
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| Anonymous wrote: |
| thistooshallpass wrote: |
| Qstr82MNY wrote: |
| most people don’t know what they have until its gone, and assume that happiness is something they must chase, not realizing its something they already possess. |
Only If this sentence could be trully understood by us... not just repeated because it sounds true and all that, but wholeheartedly understood with our whole being then it could do wonders every second.
Now I can't help but wonder whatever strain that "fat one" was. :D |
I understand this, that I know what I know, and would like to know the things that I dont. And once in awhile would like to repeat things that sound...hmmmm....cool when smoking a Red Haired Kush grown in the backyards of a freezing city........ :D Whats your prefference?
Qstr82MNY was too lazy to log in. |
Those days are long gone for me. Besides nowadays my brain produces so much opiates and endorphins naturally that sometimes I don't know what to do with them but to share the love 
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| Posted: 02/03/08 |
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Right. How are you coming along with adapting to Glendale? Miss home?
Again too lazy to sign on.
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 02/03/08 |
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| Anonymous wrote: |
Right. How are you coming along with adapting to Glendale? Miss home?
Again too lazy to sign on. |
I'd like to call Glendale my home base but the world is my home. Besides once I know where I am, I'll let you all know. So far I don't know and still working on it. I thought I knew but once an old man proved to me that I don't and since I can't trully say I know where I am. Often it is surprisingly good not to know, just not to know.
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Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
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| Posted: 02/08/08 |
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| Very cool my friend, very cool. 8)
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rita83
New Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Glendale, CA
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| Posted: 04/24/08 |
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I think it's tragic how much importance society places on material objects and wealth, although I do not want to become cliche and expand on that subject. I find happiness by hearing a child's laughter, by looking at buds grow, by random acts of kindness. Even the smallest traces of happiness can help pull me out of sorrow, for why be unhappy and steeped in grief when there is a whole world waiting for you? Don't look upon sorrow as a problem and abandon it as a constant companion, see it as just another step towards finding your true happiness.
As for finding that happiness, I think you are on the right track when you say that it stems from self-knowledge. However, I disagree with what you identify as the "source" of this river of self-knowledge. In my opinion, your heart is the source of your own river, which grows stronger and stronger through life experience. And of course, with this perspective, the source is indeed conducive to happiness. It goes without saying that our hearts sing very differently to each of us; we all want what we want as individuals. But being able to interpret a heart's song is the first step to happiness.
However, the question does complicate itself when selfishness rears its ugly head. Once jealousy and ego enter somebody's soul, then their sole agenda becomes personal gain, and nobody can be happy through these circumstances. Sure gaining wealth and material objects can supply a temporary high, but this happiness is both transient and transparent, not anything substantial or longlasting.
I hope that by listening to our hearts, we can realize the full potential of our race as human beings. Why shouldn't we be able to find happiness? Everything is within our grasp. The only thing left for us to do is learn how to take care of one another. We have to learn to be our brother's and sister's keeper and live outside of ourselves, outside a materialistic society. That is what lies at the core of every heart: compassion, kindness. Try to prevent friction in relationships, try to understand each other. If this does not lead to other people's happiness, then I am sure it will bring you closer to your own!
Wow, this was very long haha. I doubt anyone will read it .
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 04/24/08 |
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| rita83 wrote: |
I think it's tragic how much importance society places on material objects and wealth, although I do not want to become cliche and expand on that subject. I find happiness by hearing a child's laughter, by looking at buds grow, by random acts of kindness. Even the smallest traces of happiness can help pull me out of sorrow, for why be unhappy and steeped in grief when there is a whole world waiting for you? Don't look upon sorrow as a problem and abandon it as a constant companion, see it as just another step towards finding your true happiness.
As for finding that happiness, I think you are on the right track when you say that it stems from self-knowledge. However, I disagree with what you identify as the "source" of this river of self-knowledge. In my opinion, your heart is the source of your own river, which grows stronger and stronger through life experience. And of course, with this perspective, the source is indeed conducive to happiness. It goes without saying that our hearts sing very differently to each of us; we all want what we want as individuals. But being able to interpret a heart's song is the first step to happiness.
However, the question does complicate itself when selfishness rears its ugly head. Once jealousy and ego enter somebody's soul, then their sole agenda becomes personal gain, and nobody can be happy through these circumstances. Sure gaining wealth and material objects can supply a temporary high, but this happiness is both transient and transparent, not anything substantial or longlasting.
I hope that by listening to our hearts, we can realize the full potential of our race as human beings. Why shouldn't we be able to find happiness? Everything is within our grasp. The only thing left for us to do is learn how to take care of one another. We have to learn to be our brother's and sister's keeper and live outside of ourselves, outside a materialistic society. That is what lies at the core of every heart: compassion, kindness. Try to prevent friction in relationships, try to understand each other. If this does not lead to other people's happiness, then I am sure it will bring you closer to your own!
Wow, this was very long haha. I doubt anyone will read it . |
rita83,
Our ears long to hear what our hearts sing. As Merton says: "As long as we are on earth, the love that unites us will bring us suffering by our very contact with one another. Because this love is the resetting of a body of broken bones." Rita, I love your responses and looking forward to more. Thank you.
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