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thistooshallpass
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Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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 Posted: 12/03/07 |
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The question is what if this, whatever goes on, is the way it’s supposed to be. What if we’re what we are and that’s it.
I have no problem with this. The problem starts when I ask why and try to find the answer to my angst and conflicted self? I don’t ask why, I live it and what I say and do and think and talk about and argue, etc, etc, is life. To me it is. I am what I am, and this is what it is. The challenge comes when someone else brings up something as simple as disagreement and my ‘life as it is’ is turned into a conflict, that easily. The conflict starts as easily as being asked ‘why?’
Do I need to have an answer? I don’t know. I think the question itself contains the answer. The moment I try to change it by asking ‘why’, that’s the moment these questions arise and they become obstacles instead of answers. I am fearful. I don’t want what I believe or know to change. I want permanency in an impermanent.
What I think is different from what someone else thinks. No matter how much we’d like to convince or be convinced that we have the same thought, it will always remain as my projection. This projection, no matter how positive, is creating conflict. Now I am trying to solve some problem that will not be solved because I am trying and tying to solve it by thought which created it in the first place. The process of trying itself is another type of conflict. Although I have to admit I become less and less conflicted when I look into it; not to solve it but just look at it. Then life, whatever this word signifies, is seen and left alone, and once again I am whole.
Is it about going through your day without being killed or maimed or some other thing like that, in other words, is it all about survival? It may be and may not be. The moment I want to hold on to any thought or any ideal or any concept, I become conflicted and end up re-visiting the same thing – going round and round. That is fine too if I see that as part of what is. Why am I writing this or having this conversation in my head? Is it because I am conflicted? Is it because I am searching for some solution to some problem? Is it because I project my thought to another and even project my thoughts to myself? Why do I want to be something? Why do I want to be read on this blog? What is the motive? Why do I have a motive? Isn't motive itself another desire and want created by my thought? Why am I afraid and what am I afraid of? Am I afraid of being lonely? Am I afraid of being nobody in our society, and be a stranger amongst my kind? I don’t know. I don't have any answers because my answers are my thoughts and are mine alone. It is not a secret that thoughts shift and change and are not permanent, so what I write is not permanent and will shift if it hasn't yet. Is this a type of entertainment, be it spiritual, philosophical, or some other type? Again, I don't know. It is and I am. the it is and I am are not separate. I am.
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Everything is going to become unimaginably worse,
And never get better again. If I lied to you about that,
You would sense that I’d lied to you, and that would
Be another cause for gloom.
- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
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Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
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| Posted: 12/03/07 |
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| So basically if we werent questioned about our lifestyles, then we wouldnt be so contempt with who we are?
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 12/03/07 |
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| Qstr82MNY wrote: |
| So basically if we werent questioned about our lifestyles, then we wouldnt be so contempt with who we are? |
Hi Qstr82MNY,
I wish you could clarify your question, but if I understood your question clearly "...if no one ever questioned what we do, who we are, how we speak, how we look, etc, etc, then we would be more loving and more content..."
The only time, in my experience, the dissatisfaction of self arises is when I get attached to my ideas, and thoughts and dogmas and position, etc. etc. Since my identification with them is so strong, they become me. I am attached to them, and now I have to protect them at all cost. From what?
If something hurts me It leads me to self-inquiry and every time I find that the answer is with me. Blame is an ugly game that leads to no solution but more contempt and discontent. If I am not conflicted, I live. If I force myself and convince myself that I am right or not conflicted, then I suffer. Honesty with self. Being naked with self. Being without any defenses with self. This is when you see the indescribable power that you are.
When I talk or say something that's because I talk and say something. I am like a dog who barks. You can listen, tolerate, agree, disagree, fight, or kick me. I'll respond to all these various situation as opposed to reacting to them. I might respond with shouting, fighting, defending or smiling, laughing or just walking away. What I am trying to say is those are all ok until I start questioning my own choices. I do something, then I question it over and over. I say something, then I question it over and over or I just sweep it under the rug and forget about it thinking that it took care of it. When I just am moment to moment, it's all good. When I talk to another, I leave all my guns at home since one might go off accidentally. Even when I am in a terrible situation, I am... Not I am this or I am that, but just am... It is what it is and I deal with it, but under no circumstance I go against it. How can one go against what is? How can one go against Life? Actually we do and I do too, and that's what is the source of the anguish and dissatisfaction. We are here, but we want to be somewhere else. Anywhere but what is. The peace comes when one starts inquiring about the self. When I say Self, I don't mean the "self" which I protect with my position in society or with the education or wealth and power. These all can be taken away just like that. When I say SELF, I mean that which can never be changed, divided, hurt, etc.
Sorry, if this sounds weird. Sometimes I don't even know what the heck I am talking about, but seeing that I am no better than any other person in the world makes me no worse than any other person in the world. By seeing the above described process is enough to release its hold on me. I'll keep silent.
Regards.
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Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
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| Posted: 12/03/07 |
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| I'll make en effort to be more detailed with my questions in the future. But ya, that was the intention of my question.
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Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
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| Posted: 12/03/07 |
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I dont think you sound "wierd", actually I find how you view your life, and life in general very interesting.
Sometimes I get caught up with everything around me, the people and their personalities, and occupations. I begin to resemble them, their positives and negatives affect me, and have molded me to become who I am. I think about this, and I wonder, am I who I am, or am I my surroundings. I try to define who I am, based on how I feel about certain things, by feel I mean like, how I feel without thought, but more with heart. But without thought I fail to look ahead into the future.
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 12/07/07 |
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| Qstr82MNY wrote: |
I dont think you sound "wierd", actually I find how you view your life, and life in general very interesting.
Sometimes I get caught up with everything around me, the people and their personalities, and occupations. I begin to resemble them, their positives and negatives affect me, and have molded me to become who I am. I think about this, and I wonder, am I who I am, or am I my surroundings. I try to define who I am, based on how I feel about certain things, by feel I mean like, how I feel without thought, but more with heart. But without thought I fail to look ahead into the future. |
You are correct.
Տէսնում էս դեպքեր կատարվող շուրջըդ
Տէսնում էս դեպքեր կատարվող քըզ հետ
Միակ կարեվոր դեպքերն այն են
Որ կատարվում են քո մեջ, ոչ քեզ հետ։
--
Լավ թե վատը քեզ քո միտքնա ասում
Չկա լավ կամ վատ
Եթե դու լսես քո ներսի ճշտին
Վատը տեղ չունի Լավի խնջույքին
Վատին չես տեսնի... նույնիսկ եթե գա
Լավի տեղ նրան դու լույսի գանես
Բաժակը նրա գինով կլցնես
Լավ թե վատը քեզ քո միտքնա ասում։
Փորձիր միտքը քո դու միշտ ճիշտ պահես,
Մարդկանց դու երբեք չընախադատես
Թէ նախադատես՝ գոնե ճիշտ տանջվես
Փորձիր՝ կտեսնես, դու՝ կմաքրվես։
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Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
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| Posted: 12/07/07 |
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| My Armenians a bit rusty, can someone translate this please? Thanks.
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 12/07/07 |
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| Qstr82MNY wrote: |
| My Armenians a bit rusty, can someone translate this please? Thanks. |
Maybe not shortest and easiest but the best way to find and answer is to ask from the source itself.
The first one is translated from Omar Khayam
"-Things may happen around you, and things may happen to you,
but the only things that really count are the things that happen IN you."
The second one well, in a moment of inspiration, I tried to write down my musings and realizations, etc. but nothing new. To me it means nothing and everything, but I wouldn't go as far as trying to translate it. Arants en el tapak bana hnchoom, imagine if I try to translate it into English  But it is exactly the same things that you and I have been talking in different threads. Nothing new.
By the way, it is very enjoyable discussing thing with you.
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Qstr82MNY
Bronze Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 722
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| Posted: 12/07/07 |
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| Thank you, I also enjoy our conversations, and your posts in different threads.
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Guest
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| Posted: 01/01/08 |
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| Really like your posts thistooshallpass, keep it up :hello1:
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 01/09/08 |
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| Anonymous wrote: |
| Really like your posts thistooshallpass, keep it up :hello1: |
I am glad. Thank you.
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akhperjanyants
Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 191
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| Posted: 01/17/08 |
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| You are thinking too much into this "who am I" thing. By thinking you will never figure out who you are, it is through actions.
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thistooshallpass
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 01/17/08 |
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| akhperjanyants wrote: |
| You are thinking too much into this "who am I" thing. By thinking you will never figure out who you are, it is through actions. |
Akhperjanyants,
Thinking has its place, right thinking. One should not think who one is, rather one should inquire into what one is. "Who" implies to something other than what one is. "What" is much closer. Thinking without complete attention (not concentration) is dead. It is based on memory and it will never lead to anything fresh. Thought is limited and as such cannot give you anything new. Just being aware of one's thoughts and observing them, getting into them, questioning them and leaving them where they end, regardless there is an answer or not comes closer to what "self-inquiry" means. Also self-inquiry into yourself will not give you anything, it rather will get rid of what doesn't belong to you. There is a perception which is not the activity of thought, but it is perception of total observation, attention, and let the thing that is observed fly, move without getting attached to them or else thought will sneak in from the back door. Thought is nothing but a response to our memory, and what is memory...? Certainly not reality, and anything that is based on unreal cannot be taken as the truth.
Thought certainly has its place in our daily living and functioning as a tool. It is clear from the current state of man that our thoughts are using us most of the time instead of us using our thought as a tool. The problem is that thought bases itself in the past and then modifies the present (reality) and projects itself into the future. It is useless when it comes to true knowing. No thought, no word, no expression can describe who you are. You will know when you know and only you will know what you know. The rest just goes on as usual. All thought is a dead matter, is of past. One must die into oneself to see anew. Perhaps I am seemingly describing bunch of abstractions, but these are facts that I am trying to convey (without any motive, pretense, or hope that they will or must or can reach their target or purpose.)
As far as action is concerned. There can be right action only when there is right thinking, and there is no right thinking when there is no self-knowledge. One cannot be at peace without knowing oneself.
Thanks.
BTW: When I saw your response, something stirred in me, an automatic reaction, a reactive state that was going to say, "no you are wrong. I am not saying that I think into who I am, blah, blah, blah." In other words the same darn old story that got us where we are now in this crazy state of affairs. We go through our days being in this reactive state and then wonder why we are unhappy. By being aware of my thought pattern and watching them, perhaps I allowed myself avoid being reactive which would bring only suffering for me and maybe for you and would not add anything deserving to my being and you. So we are all conditioned, that goes without saying, but by seeing and being hones with ourselves things fall into their right place. After a while this clear way of observation becomes the rule rather than the exception.
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