| View previous topic :: View next topic |
|
| Author |
Message |
|
Lillith
Gold Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1879
Location: Behind the camera, Ridgewood, New Jersey
|
 Posted: 04/13/06 |
 |
|
I'm wondering if anyone here has ever heard of a Muslim Armenian before? out of curiosity, what would you guys think of an Armenian atheist converting to Islam?
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Dia
Gold Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1288
|
| Posted: 04/13/06 |
|
|
| You're planning on converting or what?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lillith
Gold Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1879
Location: Behind the camera, Ridgewood, New Jersey
|
| Posted: 04/14/06 |
|
|
| Dia wrote: |
| You're planning on converting or what? |
shhhh...... that's between me and Allah
really, I was wondering if it was possible, because I heard of a few. and the Turks are prodominantly muslim, but they break so many islamic laws that they aren't truly muslim. I've read so much on it and muslims are really a respectable group of people, and I've taken an interest in it (but really my partner taught me about it) and how different are muslims from christians? how would the armenian population take to having one of their children become muslim? are they really such a hated group in armenia?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lillith
Gold Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1879
Location: Behind the camera, Ridgewood, New Jersey
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thats_Interesting
New Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Not too Far Away
|
| Posted: 04/14/06 |
|
|
| Lillith wrote: |
| Dia wrote: |
| You're planning on converting or what? |
shhhh...... that's between me and Allah
really, I was wondering if it was possible, because I heard of a few. and the Turks are prodominantly muslim, but they break so many islamic laws that they aren't truly muslim. I've read so much on it and muslims are really a respectable group of people, and I've taken an interest in it (but really my partner taught me about it) and how different are muslims from christians? how would the armenian population take to having one of their children become muslim? are they really such a hated group in armenia? |
Thats Interesting.....not to bash on muslims or anything...but what is respectful about strapping a bomb on you and running into a building screaming Ala and killing many innocent men women and children...... I Dont think that is normal......I hope you agree.....
I also know that not all muslims do that......
As far as that site goes......i dont really buy that......not cuz i think it is a cruel conspiricy but just because i did encounter a so called armeian muslim in Turkey. He was selling leather jackets at the local "bazar". after exchanging a few words with him i couldnt help but to ask how it feels to have a turks name and be an armenian muslim and livng in turkey as a turk and not armenian. His response was that he was Armenian and not a turk. He told me that he had no other choice...he had to change his name. and as far as religion goes he was christian but if anyone asked he was muslim...he said he lied for the saftey of his wife and children. So then i asked.....is your wife armenian......he said OFFCOURSE she is and my kids attend armenian school and know how to read and write....Illl just stop boring you there......but my point is dont beilieve everything you read.....it might just turn out otherwise.......Literature has its good sides and bad...... Depending on who does the reading.........
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lillith
Gold Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1879
Location: Behind the camera, Ridgewood, New Jersey
|
| Posted: 04/14/06 |
|
|
so called muslims who strap bombs to themselves yelling Allah and blowing themselves up, aren't real muslims, destruction is against islam, mainly the destruction of lives, and suicide is against Allah as well, and it's not like the man can live to make up for his sins.
I'm not sure who put that article on wikpedia, I don't trust them since one of my classmates made a page about me on it, it was a eventually deleted, but man that thing was hilarious.
I wasn't bored, but how did you first find out he was armenian? and if he is pretending to be muslim, he isn't really and he's still a christian, it's more a matter of what you believe in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thats_Interesting
New Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Not too Far Away
|
| Posted: 04/15/06 |
|
|
| Lillith wrote: |
so called muslims who strap bombs to themselves yelling Allah and blowing themselves up, aren't real muslims, destruction is against islam, mainly the destruction of lives, and suicide is against Allah as well, and it's not like the man can live to make up for his sins.
I'm not sure who put that article on wikpedia, I don't trust them since one of my classmates made a page about me on it, it was a eventually deleted, but man that thing was hilarious.
I wasn't bored, but how did you first find out he was armenian? and if he is pretending to be muslim, he isn't really and he's still a christian, it's more a matter of what you believe in. |
Interesting comment about the bomb strapers......didnt know that.....
The way i found out that he was armenian was because he said it himself. Me and my friend were talking in armenian and he busted out with armenian out of no where.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lillith
Gold Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1879
Location: Behind the camera, Ridgewood, New Jersey
|
| Posted: 04/18/06 |
|
|
| I just had a conversation with an Armenian friend, and now I'm really freaked out, I'm not so sure I want to do it, he kept going on about how it would be a backstab to Armenians (he sounded really ignorant too). the thing is, I'm afraid that if I do convert, that Armenian people would call me a traiter, but that doesn't make sense, how can religion cancel out blood? he kept going on about how your only armenian if your christian, but yet I know so many atheist armenians who care so much for armenia (me included), and if I do become muslim, a muslim Armenian who cares for Armenia and wants the best for the Armenian people and for the peace of the world. I'm not sure if this is true, but I heard that there are muslim armenians, but they don't wear hijab and keep it a secret.
|
|
|
|
|
|
sebouh
Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 222
|
| Posted: 04/18/06 |
|
|
| Lillith wrote: |
| I just had a conversation with an Armenian friend, and now I'm really freaked out, I'm not so sure I want to do it, he kept going on about how it would be a backstab to Armenians (he sounded really ignorant too). the thing is, I'm afraid that if I do convert, that Armenian people would call me a traiter, but that doesn't make sense, how can religion cancel out blood? he kept going on about how your only armenian if your christian, but yet I know so many atheist armenians who care so much for armenia (me included), and if I do become muslim, a muslim Armenian who cares for Armenia and wants the best for the Armenian people and for the peace of the world. I'm not sure if this is true, but I heard that there are muslim armenians, but they don't wear hijab and keep it a secret. |
Your friend is right. Why did the Turks kill us? Why did we have a war in 451A.D.? One word: CHRISTIANITY
People died for you to stay Christian/Armenian and you want to just spit on their graves? Atheists are just as bad as Muslims...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lillith
Gold Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1879
Location: Behind the camera, Ridgewood, New Jersey
|
| Posted: 04/18/06 |
|
|
| sebouh wrote: |
| Lillith wrote: |
| I just had a conversation with an Armenian friend, and now I'm really freaked out, I'm not so sure I want to do it, he kept going on about how it would be a backstab to Armenians (he sounded really ignorant too). the thing is, I'm afraid that if I do convert, that Armenian people would call me a traiter, but that doesn't make sense, how can religion cancel out blood? he kept going on about how your only armenian if your christian, but yet I know so many atheist armenians who care so much for armenia (me included), and if I do become muslim, a muslim Armenian who cares for Armenia and wants the best for the Armenian people and for the peace of the world. I'm not sure if this is true, but I heard that there are muslim armenians, but they don't wear hijab and keep it a secret. |
Your friend is right. Why did the Turks kill us? Why did we have a war in 451A.D.? One word: CHRISTIANITY
People died for you to stay Christian/Armenian and you want to just spit on their graves? Atheists are just as bad as Muslims... |
Historically, Islam didn't exist yet, you must be a bit confused. I respect Armenians for they are my blood, and I respected Christians up until they stopped following the teachings of Jesus, at least Atheists and Muslims don't alter their beliefs
|
|
|
|
|
|
sebouh
Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 222
|
| Posted: 04/19/06 |
|
|
| Lillith wrote: |
| Historically, Islam didn't exist yet, you must be a bit confused. I respect Armenians for they are my blood, and I respected Christians up until they stopped following the teachings of Jesus, at least Atheists and Muslims don't alter their beliefs |
Islam didn't exist in 1915? I think you are the one confused...
The war in 451AD was the Persians wanting to convert us into Zorastrians, ok?
When did we stop following the teachings of Jesus? Got even a little bit of proof?
Little girl needs to do some research...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dia
Gold Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1288
|
| Posted: 04/19/06 |
|
|
Well, if you want to know, there is a group of armenian muslims. The live around the black sea area. Because of inbreeding for decades the main problem of that particular community is mental ilnesses(nothing to do with religion, this comment is especially for those among us mentally retarded). Other than that I know they don't associate much with other armenians although they do consider themselves armenian and speak the language.
Overall, I can say for Sunnis, there are not many differences, the big difference of course concerns the Christ, muslims believe Christ is a prophet but by no means a devince personality. The ten commendments are the same, a lot of religious holidays are about the same themes, but there is a discrepancy between dates.
The muslim world also does not recognize turkey as an islamic country, more like a country that has no values whatsoever, so from that point christians and muslims are on the same page.
As to bomb strappers- I don't know any muslim who sympathizes with them,as a matter of fact the common thing is that the strappers are mentally ill, brainwashed weak personalities. That kind of people have always been used and always well be.
Now about converting, I have the feeling this decision has to do with your current boyfriend. One advice, boyfriends/husbands/lovers/anything similar, they come and go, but the religion concerns you and only you, it's something that stays with you. If you don't have strong reasons, do not convert. Converting back and forth is not exacly the best thing to do. If you are going to convert and really keep the religion-one thing you should know, a muslim girl cannot marry anyone who's not muslim. I hope you can see where the problem lays.
What can I say, if you do convert, there will be those who will consider you a traitor, they might say very harsh things, others will not care. The decision is up to you, and ONLY you. Lilith from your posts I can say that you give in easily ("so he stops whining" your words), do not do that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lillith
Gold Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1879
Location: Behind the camera, Ridgewood, New Jersey
|
| Posted: 04/20/06 |
|
|
| sebouh wrote: |
| Lillith wrote: |
| Historically, Islam didn't exist yet, you must be a bit confused. I respect Armenians for they are my blood, and I respected Christians up until they stopped following the teachings of Jesus, at least Atheists and Muslims don't alter their beliefs |
Islam didn't exist in 1915? I think you are the one confused...
The war in 451AD was the Persians wanting to convert us into Zorastrians, ok?
When did we stop following the teachings of Jesus? Got even a little bit of proof?
Little girl needs to do some research... |
no, Islam didn't exist in 451 AD, it came around in the 600's, I wasn't aware you were going off topic and talking about Zorastrians, please be a little bit more specific.
and armenians, mainly in america, I don't think Jesus would aprove of Armenians calling themselves Christian yet they go out every weekend, get completly wasted, girls are hardly wearing any clothes, they have rediculous amounts of premarital sex, if you are going to call yourself Christian, don't be hypocrits. there is probably more and I can explain later if you are interested.
|
|
|
|
|
|
sebouh
Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 222
|
| Posted: 04/20/06 |
|
|
| Lillith wrote: |
no, Islam didn't exist in 451 AD, it came around in the 600's, I wasn't aware you were going off topic and talking about Zorastrians, please be a little bit more specific.
and armenians, mainly in america, I don't think Jesus would aprove of Armenians calling themselves Christian yet they go out every weekend, get completly wasted, girls are hardly wearing any clothes, they have rediculous amounts of premarital sex, if you are going to call yourself Christian, don't be hypocrits. there is probably more and I can explain later if you are interested. |
Oh I see, these teenagers represent all Christian-Armenians, eh?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lillith
Gold Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1879
Location: Behind the camera, Ridgewood, New Jersey
|
| Posted: 04/20/06 |
|
|
| Dia wrote: |
Well, if you want to know, there is a group of armenian muslims. The live around the black sea area. Because of inbreeding for decades the main problem of that particular community is mental ilnesses(nothing to do with religion, this comment is especially for those among us mentally retarded). Other than that I know they don't associate much with other armenians although they do consider themselves armenian and speak the language.
Overall, I can say for Sunnis, there are not many differences, the big difference of course concerns the Christ, muslims believe Christ is a prophet but by no means a devince personality. The ten commendments are the same, a lot of religious holidays are about the same themes, but there is a discrepancy between dates.
The muslim world also does not recognize turkey as an islamic country, more like a country that has no values whatsoever, so from that point christians and muslims are on the same page.
As to bomb strappers- I don't know any muslim who sympathizes with them,as a matter of fact the common thing is that the strappers are mentally ill, brainwashed weak personalities. That kind of people have always been used and always well be.
Now about converting, I have the feeling this decision has to do with your current boyfriend. One advice, boyfriends/husbands/lovers/anything similar, they come and go, but the religion concerns you and only you, it's something that stays with you. If you don't have strong reasons, do not convert. Converting back and forth is not exacly the best thing to do. If you are going to convert and really keep the religion-one thing you should know, a muslim girl cannot marry anyone who's not muslim. I hope you can see where the problem lays.
What can I say, if you do convert, there will be those who will consider you a traitor, they might say very harsh things, others will not care. The decision is up to you, and ONLY you. Lilith from your posts I can say that you give in easily ("so he stops whining" your words), do not do that. |
yea, but my boyfriend, it's a weird and arduous story, but in summary, about my religious life:
I believed in god as a kid, but then when I was 10 I realised I only believed in god because I was being told to, so I gave up. I heard alot about religions and throughout the past 5-6 years I pretty much didn't listen and said screw religion, and that it's a waste of time. but meeting the guy who became my boyfriend, he was a friend of mine first, he was muslim when he met me (he's Iranian) but when he first met me, he wasn't all that serious, but after meeting me he became serious after something I said, I was talking about politics but I think the same thing applies to religion "you have to do what you believe in, there is no point in saying you are something if you don't do as you say, that just makes you a hypocrit" and that motivated him somehow, I was Atheist at the time for the record. pretty much, a few months later, when he admitted to liking me as more than a friend we went out, but then he talked so much about Islam and I shut my mind off, then he got mad at me for not listening and we fought alot over my ignorance and refusal to pay attention (I can be very stubbern like that). thenI learned about Islam in school and I find that I they are a reasonable group of people, but I only listened knowing that my grade depended on it. but after that, I finally started listening to what Cina says, and I found that Islam is very peaceful and have some good reasonings that I agree with (for example, covering up your body, not drinking alcohal, treating people with respect no matter what) I thought that I would concider it if i ever believed in god again. this past month, for the first time in years, I felt the presence of god, so now i might convert, but I don't know. I believe in alot of islamic values, (surprisingly they are alot like the first values of christianity, the ones tought by Jesus Christ mainly surounding peace) the issue I have, is that I love Armenia, even if I haven't been there, I care alot about my country, but I don't want to drop my beliefs (it's not like the beliefs are anti-armenian) the thing is, I feel like I've finally been introduced to god in a better way than I have been before. I really love Armenia, and I love Armenians, they are my brothers and sisters. I don't see why armenians and muslims can't get along or be both at the same time. right now I'm worried about being veiwed as a traitor, because I don't believe religion and race should be directly linked "hand in hand" and that "you can't be one without the other" krap, I really want the Armenian Genocide recognised and I get politically involved in armenian issues with the ANC. tomorow I'm going to have a long talk with an older friend who is armenian, I have to make a serious decision on what to do.
Last edited by Lillith on 04/20/06; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted: 04/20/06 |
|
|
| sebouh wrote: |
| Lillith wrote: |
no, Islam didn't exist in 451 AD, it came around in the 600's, I wasn't aware you were going off topic and talking about Zorastrians, please be a little bit more specific.
and armenians, mainly in america, I don't think Jesus would aprove of Armenians calling themselves Christian yet they go out every weekend, get completly wasted, girls are hardly wearing any clothes, they have rediculous amounts of premarital sex, if you are going to call yourself Christian, don't be hypocrits. there is probably more and I can explain later if you are interested. |
Oh I see, these teenagers represent all Christian-Armenians, eh? |
not teenagers, what about your 20 year olds? not all, but this is what I see, people who wear crosses and sin so much. and one other thing, Christ said that one should treat others the way they wanted to be treated, intending that he ment that even if someone isn't like you, you should still respect them. yet now, these days, christians exclude people and treat them disrespectfully just because they are from a differect christian sect or they are atheist, or of a different race or lifestyle and tend to judge without even knowing someone well enough. you are suposed to be nice to everyone! yet do all armenians follow that rule? how about this, do all christians follow that rule?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lillith
Gold Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1879
Location: Behind the camera, Ridgewood, New Jersey
|
| Posted: 04/20/06 |
|
|
| Anonymous wrote: |
| sebouh wrote: |
| Lillith wrote: |
no, Islam didn't exist in 451 AD, it came around in the 600's, I wasn't aware you were going off topic and talking about Zorastrians, please be a little bit more specific.
and armenians, mainly in america, I don't think Jesus would aprove of Armenians calling themselves Christian yet they go out every weekend, get completly wasted, girls are hardly wearing any clothes, they have rediculous amounts of premarital sex, if you are going to call yourself Christian, don't be hypocrits. there is probably more and I can explain later if you are interested. |
Oh I see, these teenagers represent all Christian-Armenians, eh? |
not teenagers, what about your 20 year olds? not all, but this is what I see, people who wear crosses and sin so much. and one other thing, Christ said that one should treat others the way they wanted to be treated, intending that he ment that even if someone isn't like you, you should still respect them. yet now, these days, christians exclude people and treat them disrespectfully just because they are from a differect christian sect or they are atheist, or of a different race or lifestyle and tend to judge without even knowing someone well enough. you are suposed to be nice to everyone! yet do all armenians follow that rule? how about this, do all christians follow that rule? |
that was me, I apologize, i thought i was logged in
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dia
Gold Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1288
|
| Posted: 04/20/06 |
|
|
Lilith, you make sense and yet you don't. Aight, the religion touched your heart and you want to convert. Aight. Did you acutally read the bible, tora, or hinduist or buddist scriptures? What if after let's say a year or two someone else makes you read either of those? What if then you find that one of those other books touches your heart even more and is actually exactly what you've been looking for? Are you going to convert again?
Don't get me wrong, your choice is fine, but to make a good decision you need to weigh all aspects of it. In this case you have only one aspect at your hand.
As to the fights part-sorry but it's your decision whether to listen to him or not, he has no right to pressure you much less fight about things of that sort. That's a BIG BIG red flag. I guess what I am saying is right now you need to concentrate more on figuring out why he puts so much pressure on you and why you actually give in to that pressure. It's not the issue of religion, it's the issue of his personality traits. I mean for God's sake you've been only going out for a couple of months and he already behaves like he owns you, what's going to happen next, think about it, otherwise by 18-19 you might find that he's gone and you have nothing left of your own, not even YOUR personality.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lillith
Gold Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1879
Location: Behind the camera, Ridgewood, New Jersey
|
| Posted: 04/20/06 |
|
|
| Dia wrote: |
Lilith, you make sense and yet you don't. Aight, the religion touched your heart and you want to convert. Aight. Did you acutally read the bible, tora, or hinduist or buddist scriptures? What if after let's say a year or two someone else makes you read either of those? What if then you find that one of those other books touches your heart even more and is actually exactly what you've been looking for? Are you going to convert again?
Don't get me wrong, your choice is fine, but to make a good decision you need to weigh all aspects of it. In this case you have only one aspect at your hand.
As to the fights part-sorry but it's your decision whether to listen to him or not, he has no right to pressure you much less fight about things of that sort. That's a BIG BIG red flag. I guess what I am saying is right now you need to concentrate more on figuring out why he puts so much pressure on you and why you actually give in to that pressure. It's not the issue of religion, it's the issue of his personality traits. I mean for God's sake you've been only going out for a couple of months and he already behaves like he owns you, what's going to happen next, think about it, otherwise by 18-19 you might find that he's gone and you have nothing left of your own, not even YOUR personality. |
I thank you for caring on behalf of my well-being, but about control, i think he was trying to help me get back in touch with god and for real this time, I thank him so much for that, I have probably given him a lot more trouble than he has given me. I understand why he gets upset with me sometimes, we're both incredibly stubbern and have OCD, but he hasn't been controlling me. we fight about stupid things all the time, but usually the fight is over within a very short period of time, and underneath it all he's really a caring and sensitive person. he's been my friend almost a year now and my partner for allmost 4 months
i actually have looked into alot of different religions, mainly because I learned about them in school or from people I have met, but I'm a monotheist
|
|
|
|
|
|
sebouh
Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 222
|
| Posted: 04/20/06 |
|
|
| Anonymous wrote: |
| not teenagers, what about your 20 year olds? not all, but this is what I see, people who wear crosses and sin so much. and one other thing, Christ said that one should treat others the way they wanted to be treated, intending that he ment that even if someone isn't like you, you should still respect them. yet now, these days, christians exclude people and treat them disrespectfully just because they are from a differect christian sect or they are atheist, or of a different race or lifestyle and tend to judge without even knowing someone well enough. you are suposed to be nice to everyone! yet do all armenians follow that rule? how about this, do all christians follow that rule? |
Christ also said you shouldn't judge.
And who ever gave you the idea that these kinds of people represent Christianity? OH, he wears a cross. If he is a bad, bad man, Christianity is a fake!
Geez Lilith look at Christ if you want someone to represent CHRISTianity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You can post new topics
You can reply to topics
You cannot edit your posts
You cannot delete your posts
You cannot vote in polls
|
|
|
Log in to check your private messages
Login
