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baa_aper45
Loyal Member
Posts: 550
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Mon Mar 01, 2010
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Oh you. In response to "being insulted results in pointless wars/hate/etc.," he said that if every person had values that allowed them to be insulted, people would reconsider mindlessly insulting others due to the fact that everyone has values and as a result, everyone may retaliate.
People with lots of guns not shooting each other as often because people know everyone has guns and are therefore hesitant to use them due to possible retaliation is the same concept in different context.
Jogir? 
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ActOnIt
Supreme Member
Posts: 7858
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Mon Mar 01, 2010
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| baa_aper45 wrote: | Oh you. In response to "being insulted results in pointless wars/hate/etc.," he said that if every person had values that allowed them to be insulted, people would reconsider mindlessly insulting others due to the fact that everyone has values and as a result, everyone may retaliate.
People with lots of guns not shooting each other as often because people know everyone has guns and are therefore hesitant to use them due to possible retaliation is the same concept in different context.
Jogir? |
Oh, lol. I haven't read the thread. 
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.Dev.
Loyal Member
Posts: 940
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Mon Mar 01, 2010
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Human beings can be such sensitive little bitches. This isn't the Mickey Mouse Club ara. (not directed at anyone specific)
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MaratMilano
Supreme
Posts: 6244
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Mon Mar 01, 2010
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Yeah Devil I'm not quite sure to agree with you here. Japan is indeed about as good of an example as you can come up with for a country's moral and ethical progression and it's effect on the masses.
I don't know measuring our values in the form of "how insulted one gets" does for anyone. I'm all for having principles, but following them on your own rather than letting anyone get to your head with it.
For example, I see Armenians (just an example we'll relate to) on here who have their self pride on OVERLOAD and any sort of small remark garners a "ay whats ur phone number foo, let's meet up foo". Is that right? That's from having such a strict set of principles - you feel justified in taking unnecessary action because in your head these values have molded you to think that this conduct is ok as retaliation.
It reminds me of the old days when a man could call out another man to a duel, for just about anything. A fight to the death over something like a card game. It's technically a strict "value" and the utmost extreme response to an "insult", is that right though?
Russia lost its two greatest poets because they believed they were doing the "honorable" thing and engaging in a duel, when really they threw themselves into a death that was perfectly avoidable and unnecessary in the grand scheme. I'm with baa aper on this one.
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SmileforDevil
Supreme Member
Posts: 1067
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Mon Mar 01, 2010
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| MaratMilano wrote: | Yeah Devil I'm not quite sure to agree with you here. Japan is indeed about as good of an example as you can come up with for a country's moral and ethical progression and it's effect on the masses.
I don't know measuring our values in the form of "how insulted one gets" does for anyone. I'm all for having principles, but following them on your own rather than letting anyone get to your head with it.
For example, I see Armenians (just an example we'll relate to) on here who have their self pride on OVERLOAD and any sort of small remark garners a "ay whats ur phone number foo, let's meet up foo". Is that right? That's from having such a strict set of principles - you feel justified in taking unnecessary action because in your head these values have molded you to think that this conduct is ok as retaliation.
It reminds me of the old days when a man could call out another man to a duel, for just about anything. A fight to the death over something like a card game. It's technically a strict "value" and the utmost extreme response to an "insult", is that right though?
Russia lost its two greatest poets because they believed they were doing the "honorable" thing and engaging in a duel, when really they threw themselves into a death that was perfectly avoidable and unnecessary in the grand scheme. I'm with baa aper on this one. |
Marat, what you're talking about exists in our days as well for even pettier reasons. A guy gets honked on the freeway, pulls up next to the person honking, and shoots his head off (true story). Those types of things are bound to happen, because there's a time of molding ideologies and rapid change, and when that happens society divides up into factions of those who hang on to old values and those who want to move on, there are no set rules and codes. That is exactly what I think is creating the problem.
The rest I will reply to baa_aper_45's post.
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SmileforDevil
Supreme Member
Posts: 1067
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Mon Mar 01, 2010
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| baa_aper45 wrote: | ..?
Arizona has one of the highest (if not highest) gun homicide rates in the country.
Funny you use guns as an analogy too. Japan has next to no gun crime at all. They have rather rigorous gun ownership procedures, but even then, the rate of illegal guns is extremely low. Outside of Yakuza, ownership and gun violence are essentially nonexistent. One could attribute much of this to their gun laws, but the fact that their overall homicide rates are still so minuscule in comparison to the rest of the world clearly signifies that there's more to it.
The reason is pretty obvious... their whole country is essentially the antithesis of what you want. Why? Because the culture of honor where insults and pride dictated the majority of their actions existed there much more considerably than in any other nation. Because of that, they had nonstop war throughout their whole history and completely collapsed since every completely retarded decision they made in WW2 was rooted in doing the "honorable" thing.
And then after rebuilding their country, all that stupidity immediately died out. Modesty overtook everything, education and societal advancement on the global level became the primary goal, and educated people understand that there is absolutely nothing of value in petty conflict. Now they have undoubtedly the most peaceful and demure nation in the world, as well as arguably the most progressed. Go figure. |
When you are talking about the gun related crimes in Arizona, I might agree with you, since I did not have actual statistics with me when I made the analogy. The analogy might not apply, but here's what I'll say about Japan...
We are not in any way comparable to Japan, for a few simple reasons. Japan embraces totally different religious views whose emphasis is mostly on social conduct, rather than spirituality. Zen/Taoism/Confuscianism/Buddhism all have aspects that promote social harmony and order. A young person knows to respect an elder if not for anything else, then SIMPLY due to the person's age. Buddhism/Zen Buddhism all have principles of social roles very similar to Hinduism (a prostitute is a good person if she is good in prostitution, a soldier is a good soldier if he kills and gets a job done, etc) which relates to the example of respecting a person due to his old age. I am going off on a tangent by commenting on this post here....but I'm having a hard time agreeing to your example of Japan for reasons I stated above.
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SmileforDevil
Supreme Member
Posts: 1067
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Mon Mar 01, 2010
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| baa_aper45 wrote: | | Not off topic in any way. The analogy used to elucidate how people having values = less pointless conflict due to fear of retaliation is fallacious because the only thing people having guns in Arizona accomplished = more people dying by guns. The progression of Japan is the most massive paragon of how societies blossom when moving away from having personal values and pride. |
As I stated in my previous post....Japan HASN'T moved away from having personal values and pride. They have simply given up on having aristocracy and tribalism. I do agree that the latter would help the society blossom, but their personal value and pride system is very, very much intact, which ensures the harmony in the society, when everyone lives by a code of conduct, when everyone knows that "You'll get slapped if you dishonor an elder"....
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SmileforDevil
Supreme Member
Posts: 1067
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Mon Mar 01, 2010
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Consider this in analyzing what I was stating and what Shamiram articulated in a more comprehensive way.
When in a society (hypothetical for the most part) a person lives by a certain code of honor/conduct, and another person could care less, and another person is still undecided about how to live, factions start to form, oppressor and oppressed are born and educated, black and white, good and bad, right and wrong, all in no synchronization and no harmony. As a result there are those who wouldn't mind being called a SOB, and those same people might get killed by those who do give a damn. I am not trying to show one as positive and the other negative, merely trying to state the difference and possible outcomes. Of course, I mean for this to be applied to much broader concepts, and what I am talking about here and asking for opinions, is that if all lived by the same codes, WHAT DIFFERENCES could cause people to have conflicts with one another.
P.S. I view conflict as a positive thing for the advancement of civilization.
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nonexist
The Quiet Type
Posts: 11
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Thu Mar 04, 2010
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| ResidentDevil wrote: | I am tired and sick of people that cannot be insulted. They bug the shet outta me at times and annoy me as nothing else does. Why can't one insult, and see that the other person got insulted?
Why do I think this happens? Because most people these days have no codes of conduct, no value systems, no pride, honor. They don't have anything of value about themselves that they would feel is being threatened by someone else's insults. Is there nothing you hold dear? Is there nothing about you worth getting insulted about? Has this generation stopped being human? Why can't you just insult someone and see that they are insulted and ready to attack back? I will add more, but
Do Discuss
P.S. All you internet geeks waiting to reply with a "This is the internet , don't take it to seriously", back off, think twice. People are people no matter where, AND, im not talking only about people on forums and such, im talking about people in general these days. |
Let me put it this way. If I am insulted but I lie to myself then I am gutless and stand for very little but if I am really not insulted, then I am not insulted. No mystery there. Now what you think of me is none of my business. If you let fear run your life you'll go around trying to roar as a lion with a heart of a mouse. However very few will see this or through that person. But this is a whole different theme. Peace
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SmileforDevil
Supreme Member
Posts: 1067
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Fri Mar 05, 2010
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? aite
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ssatana
Loyal Member
Posts: 654
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Fri Mar 05, 2010
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Slurp
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FlyToSaturn
Valued Contributor
Posts: 221
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Fri Mar 05, 2010
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ppl from this chat tend to insult each other a lot with no reason
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.:Miffymon:.
The Camper
Posts: 79
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Tue Mar 23, 2010
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I rarely have people insulting me online or in real life but for those times where I am offended by a persons misconception about me, I try to keep my composure so I don't look like a brute when my anger at times can get the best of me. I pretend like the person is just joking with me and make fun of their mother, thus nullifying their insult and minimizing it to that of a waste of their time to even convey the thought/insult.
I can understand avoiding conflict by either admitting the insult is true or just letting you say what you want. People are cowards lately. They would allow you to do anything to them if that were the case.
I think perhaps it's related to the stoner's community where anything is okay as long as they got their weed. Or even the completely sedated a.d.d. kid who couldn't have a real life and is completely dependent on their ritallin to be normal.
Also, yes there are many people who have poor values and revel in being the decadence of America. Those people will destroy themselves before their lives value is even in question.
Don't sweat the idiots. Attack smart people!
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ZombieGaro
Valued Contributor
Posts: 331
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Wed Mar 31, 2010
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people who respond to insults are stupid. This person is an idiot who is trying to draw you into conflict. screw him. let him blab on all day. in the end he will go mad just like the TC has, becouse they are IGNORED. no one likes to be ignored.
The one who takes no insult from your words wins the battle without anything being said or done.
Barbarians will still turn around and start swinging fists for every little "your a fag" or " idiot" they hear.
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People And Insults
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